How can we use the things we share in common to address some of the most challenging problems facing the world? This course examines issues concerning poverty, the environment, technology, health care, gender, education and activism to help us understand better how to initiate positive change.
Global Challenges and Local Responses
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How to Change the World
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Climate Change and Sustainability
Discussion about political and economic ramifications of climate change, including how to think big about sustainability
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Michael S. Roth
[MUSIC]
>> Yeah, so there will be, winners and losers,
and people who are more or less affected, but the
one comment I'd like to make is that climate has
not been stable for a very long time, and, and.
People should know that there's a difference between weather and climate.
Climate is a measure of about thirty years worth of daily weather.
Weather is what happens
today and tomorrow.
And what we've seen from the industrial
revolution in the 1860's through the current time.
Is that as the temperature of the Earth has increased,
the variability of the climate in each place has increased.
So here in the Northeast we're actually going to
see higher highs and some lower lows and
lots of storms. >> Mhm.
What's going to happen globally and what happens at each
place globally depends on is being predicted by different models.
>> Mm-hm.
>> But what seems to, to happen is that there will be
some places on the Earth that are going to get more arid.
So, for example, Central Africa, the tropical part of Africa,
will get much drier and, and much hotter. Parts of the Amazon
basin they're predicting will get much hotter and
much drier. Within North America The wet
sort of climate of the American mid-west is actually going to shift north
to to Canada. But it's this complex
interaction and it's a little bit hard to predict but there's a cycle and that
cylce is that as the, the air temperature
warms Surface water temperatures warm, and everybudys done
this experiment, by leaving something that our parents
think should have been placed in a refrigerator,
and they've left it on a couch and then got yelled for it, why, because it's
been warmed up, it will assume The air temperature.
So, as air temperature warms up, more, it's easier
for water with wind to be evaporated into the atmosphere.
And, the way it works is, is that what, for water, what goes up Comes down.
The big question then is why will some places get dryer?
And that's because
they're predicting that for many parts of the world, that evaporated water will
rain out over the oceans, and therefore be lost to continental systems for
quite a while, and what's going to happen, and also, not only for the evaporated
water hitting But also the warmer sea temperatures are melting icecaps and
this is happening with Greenland, with the ice sheets in Greenland.
We've seen big pieces.
>> Yeah. >> Of Antarctic ice sheets breaking.
And also, 55 glaciers are in retreat worldwide.
For example on the Tibetan plateau we've had these Enormous tragedies where
too much melt water has come down and flooded out these villages.
So what that's
doing is elevating sea surfaces, and
we can see in parts of the United States and other parts of the world.
Particularly out in the tropical pacific that many homelands are being lost.
Places like Vanawatu, and parts of micronesia.
These people are about it not only
be displaced but their homeland will go um,entirely.
So there are going to be winners and losers, and
the question then is what, what to do about it.
>> And you've worked in different parts of
the world, and, and with different kinds of communities.
And in that work, have you seen how,
how are communities are responding to changes in climate.
I mean what And and, I guess, over a long periods of time, human groups
have, have had to respond to, to changes.
Wha, how, what kind of responses have you seen in, in these different areas?
>> Well, I have to say that in India, I have not seen responses but
I li I left doing work in India in the early 90s.
So, in Peru I am amazed at how
little people are aware.
People are aware That, what, the way they, they speak.
They say the rains have gone crazy.
>> I see.
>> The rains have gone crazy, so, and I, this, some of it went really crazy.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, when it's supposed to be dry,
>> Mm hmm.
>> the driest part of the, of the year, it was pouring Mm hmm.
Everyday, and there was mold everywhere.
So people are where is it but what amazes me is how poorly
the indication of the system or the media is addressing this.
>> Yes. >> It's just not.
>> Yeah you've talked before about environmental literacy
right and, and so one of the most.
Important things we can do is just to
make people more aware of the danger we're in.
>> Yeah.
>> And why, why, why do you think that media hasn't been more
effective in, in showing these dangers? >> I'm stumped.
>> [LAUGH] >> I don't know.
I mean, my, my very superficial impression is that You know, me,
in, in a lot of the global south, it's true of India, it's true of Peru.
>> Hm.
>> The places I know best.
I know a bit Morocco and I think it's true in Morocco as well.
>> Hm.
>> the, the global south is In a, in a trance.
About identity and all the goodies that it brings you.
>> They also don't want to give up those.
>> And >> Near term possibilities.
>> Yes.
The, the people who are more attuned with it are the indigenous people.
>> Mm hmm.
>> Because they have not, many of them have not bought into that lifestyle.
>> Mm hmm. >> And they
are aware.
They are for example, that is why they came to my center.
They say our children will not be able to do slash and burn.
The forest is gone, is going. >> The forests are already gone.
>> And if we cannot grow our own food we are at the mercy of the market.
We have to sell our labor, you know, our culture is threatened.
Our identity, our Autonomy.
>> Mm-hm.
>> So, they are aware, and there's a wonderfully documentary about the
Kogi of of Columbia, a native group.
And they have very fine, they read the landscape.
They read the Earth with great precision and discrimination.
And they know what is happening.
And the ones who really know, are the Inuits.
I mean they are extremely affected. Extremely affected there.
>> Uh-hm.
>> And they know it. >> So
the one who are most aware are also the ones who have no power.
[LAUGH]
>> yes.
>> And little voice, its sad, but that's the case.
>> Yeah, I, I was just reviewing a book by psychologist
Daniel Goldman, A book called Focus, in which he argues.
I'm not really persuaded by this that, that it's, it's evolution.
That makes us focus on short term.
Our brains are meant to focus on short term dangers.
You know, and and that we are.
Not wired, as, as people like to
say, today, for looking at long-term systemic issues.
And, and so, even though these so-called long-term issues are,
y'know, dec- -- within decades of having a dramatic effect on us, that's it's
much easier to worry about, how many jobs will be created if
we build this pipeline or What's the price of gas next week.
Or, if you carbon's tax you learn to have some reduction in GVP.
th... Which are...
These are not insignificant issues, but we, we, but we focus on them exclusively.
Rather then look at long term systemic issues.
Because It's just much harder for out brains
to do that.
>> Well, that, that gives me the opportunity to speak about a book I love.
>> Uh-huh.
>> Ian Gilchrist, The Master and His Emissary.
He is a neurosurgeon and he's written an amazing book about The bilateral brain.
>> Yes.
>> Really, really evaluating the old scholarship on this.
>> Mm-hm.
>> And I'm going to summarize
>> Yes. >> Hardly
[LAUGH] it's very long book.
You know, that, what Daniel Goldman has identified.
>> Mm-hm. >> Is a left brain.
>> Right. >> Which is of course.
What we moderns have put all our eggs into that basket, so we have a
half petrified or left brain, and atrified right brain, and he says it's a distaster,
we have because we, these other, you know the
right brain According to him, it, you know, the language.
>> Yeah.
>> But a cer, certain type of language.
>> Yes. >> Of course.
Very influenced by our alphabet which is linear.
>> Mm-hm.
>> And and presented totally phonetic.
The human voice, that's all.
And whereas the right brain has the metaphorical language.
>> Mm-hm. The sounds, music.
>> Yes
>> metaphor, the arts.
All of these things and a different kind of knowledge.
>> Yes
>> Gaining a way of apprehending and being in the world.
And, he says it is absolutlely necessary.
We have totally unbalanced this. Because the kind of precision and
observatin that we get from Indigenous people about
the climate change and they're very, very precise.
>> Yes.
>> Is right brain so the indigenous people you could say I
have atrophied in the right brain and atrophied in the left brain.
But you know, you could say that some
people say that but we certainly need to balance.
>> This equation of balance or integration is.
Is, is, is keen a lot of a lot
of respects. >> Yeah.
>> the, the, the intersection of climate change and evolution
is something I thought we might talk a little bit about.
Because there are commentators who have said that you know, climate
change has, it's been part of evolution for a long, long time.
Technology may amplify this, we may have more rapid changes right now,
but climate like humans are responding to evolution, or part of evolution,
and we ought to thing about it that way in the future.
>> Yeah, the relationship between climate
change and evolution is really fascinating because
The planet has not been stable in its climate throughout its entire history.
>> [INAUDIBLE]
>> And organisms have evolved, they've gone extinct
>> Yeah.
>> The environmental surfaces of the
planets have changed dramatically through time.
So the question is,
is, are we driving something different than.
That normally happens and should we be concerned about it.
And the answer is that we're actually driving it,
you know, in a, during a period when the earth should actually be cooling.
We're actually making the earth warmer when in
fact, natural processess would be making the earth cooler.
So we're
driving it in an articicial Way.
>> How do we know the process is, would be making it cooler.
And if, if there's a [CROSSTALK]
>> These, these [CROSSTALK]
>> If there's a quick answer, I don't know [LAUGH]
>> Brilliant Chief Physicists, you know, looking [CROSSTALK]
>> I see, at these patterns?
>> Looking at these patterns and where we are
in the relationship of the sun and everything else.
We should actually be in in a slight cooling period.
>> Mm-hm.
>> And, we are in a, in a very, very big warming trend.
>> So yes,
we're evolving, we're driving evolution in organisms that either can make
it or they can't make it, as I mentioned earlier, the
plant crops relating to human They're diminishing and humans
have to make a are, are making a change it's having different differential impact.
But the fact to the matter is, is that through big
climatic catastrophe's that have happened on the
planet we've had this Big mass extinctions.
>> Right.
>> And in those there have been losers and winners.
For example, after the last natural one, mammals, and,
and, and as a result humans actually came into being.
>> Right.
>> After the crustaceous, the big crustaceous tertiary extinction.
So, is it a good thing, is it a bad thing?
The answer is is >> And if you're a mammal.
[LAUGH]
>> If you were a mammal it was a good thing.
If you were a dinosaur, well now you're a bird.
So maybe that's a good thing too.
But the fact of the matter is we're driving this more quickly.
And, as not entirely due to climate change, but certainly a big part of it.
We are currently in the sixth, what's now been recognized as the six,
sixth mass extinction to which climate change certainly plays a part.
The heating of oceans The diminishing coral reefs.
You know, we're just seeing extinctions due to climate change all over.
Other things are evolving. That's absolutely true.
>> So it's, it's, I, I gue-, I guess it would be accurate to say that what, one
of the things that's really particular about this mass
extinction is that there is a species that is talking
about mass extinctions. >> That's right.
>> And that.
Ss, at least in principle seems capable of self-consciousness about the process.
And this t gets back to what we were talking about before.
We can s, we are capable. I mean, here we are talking about it.
Our brains are capable, right left brain integration of thinking these terms.
But we also seem capable of,
of contributing to our own demise and that, that just seems
frightening and, and and you know, I don't know tragic really.
I mean is it, is it.
I, I, Federica, do you think, how hopeful are you that we can awaken
to take steps that would prevent the process that we've
come to understand from actually happening, I mean do you, do you
you feel hopeful that there are things we can do that will,
that will make a difference? Depends on the day.
[LAUGH] What I've been reading.
When I'm in [INAUDIBLE] I'm very hopeful because there really
is a need for that kind of agriculture quite separate from the climate change.
And it happens to also affect climate change,
and, Are beginning to work with the school.
>> Mm-hm.
>> We've been, they're very open, they're very wanted.
>> Mm-hm.
>> It's worked very well. The parents are on board.
>> Mm-hm.
>> At the beginning they didn't want their children
to become farmers but now, now they love it.
>> Mm-hm.
>> Because it's.
So there I am hopeful but when I'm here I'm less hopeful.
What I hang on to, and I may be just delusional, deluding myself,
is this theory, belief in the tipping point.
>> Mm-hm.
>> I believe we need to take things into our own
hands and do things like Barry was saying and this is what
I'm doing and I'm trying to spread it, you know, and
this is It's being happening here, it's happening more and more places.
You know, gardens, [UNKNOWN], >> Mm-hm.
>> Things that really,
we have to do direct actions. >> Direct actions, mm-hm.
>> And my hope is, when I'm optimistic, and I tend to be mostly optimistic,
Is that the tipping point, I mean, I
haven't really looked into it deeply because I'm afraid to [LAUGH], I
have to hang on to my hope, is that, you know, 10%
>> Mm-hm. >> If 10% of population,
does this alternative, you will a tipping
point, like, you know, like water freezing.
All of a sudden, things will change
>> [CROSSTALK] When I think about it rationally, I get very
scared and depressed, you know because so much I can see has
to do with economic system, I collaborated with an
ecomonist who, who used to be my husband for decades and so I you know,
what we are up against is Gigantic.
It's, not only the economic system, but the mode of thought.
>> Yes.
>> And the greening, you know, quantifying
everything is not going to do it.
You know, green economics, in terms of putting
a price on the services of the "environment,"
Is better, but it's not going to solve the problem.
It's inadequate.
>> Let me ask you this.
Maybe Barry will want to speak to this.
I was recently in a big research university and talking to some engineers
who were working, you know, on the, the less great side, I guess you would say.
But thinking about The things they could do, you
know, to get that carbon out of the atmosphere.
To or mitigate, you know, and build the barriers around the cities, and, you know.
The, they, they, they recognize climate change.
They recognize it's happening. What they are trying to use, technology,
capital intensive efforts by either corporations or
states to mitigate the effects of these changes
and, and you know, I, I was in
California and there's enormous faith in technology among some
sectors, right, that, that It, it will be
a technological fix or at least, you know, contribution.
And, and, I, I wonder what your thoughts are about that.
>> Yeah, I think, I think it's going to be complex.
We've seen.
You know, discussions about well, if we need to
cool the planet off for example, one of the technological
solutions is to seed the atmosphere with dust.
>> Mm-hm.
>> And because, it's just based on the fact that when recent volcanoes
have gone off like Pinatubo in
the Philippines, the Earth's temperature has dropped.
But there are side effects to all of that. There's no free lunch, as it were.
And you know, New York City, for example after their, the last big hurricane
that came through, and the storage, storm surge in the wake of that.
Turned around and Mayor Bloomberg really they put big
things into place because Manhattan, big pieces of lower Manhattan.
>> Yeah.
>> Were flooded and they predict will flood and, and what will they do?
Can technology fix everything around the world?
I doubt it and so a Like most things, I think balance and
a mixed mitaga..., you know, a combination of mitagation and
adaptation strategies is going to be needed.for some of
these big technological solutions. The question is is can we.
As a developed nation that's completely hooked, on
fossil fuel burning, can we put in place the technology
to allow the biggest contributors to stop heating the planet?
Can we change how we use cars?
Can we change to Higher density living. >> Mm-hm.
>> You know, reduce our living surface volume to area ratios in the northeast,
where, or in the northern parts, where we don't have, we get more efficient heating.
>> Mm-hm.
>> That's where we need huge
technological solutions, change our energy strategies.
The big question is, is, how These nation
states, and people living in, particularly in developed countries like the
United States, who use up, a quarter of all
the world's resources with only 4% of the world's population
>> Yeah.
>> Can we look at the planet as a social good?
And how do we
How do we incorporate this right brain thinking
into saying that our conservation, our change in
our behavior patterns will be good for everybody
and particularly for the forthcoming generations, our children.
And the sad part is is that the politics that
the governmental styles that we have Are too short term.
>> Yeah. >> To protect longer term
interests because politicians need to get elected in a
shorter term period that cannot take the long view.
>> Right.
That just.
And that gets back to the literacy issue, right?
>> Right.
>> Because people, they don't know about the long view.
>> Right.
>> And they'll act always on their short-term interests.
>> Exactly.
>> And. And it's hard enough to, to balance them.
But if you're kept in the dark about the long term,
then, then you always, people tend to go for that immediate gratification.
>> Yeah.
A fast point is that a recent, release by the Yale, Climate Survey.
Shows that actually in the United States now, most people
do believe in climate change, and that it will be bad.
The interesting thing is that when they were asked, do you think
it will hurt you Well, your immediate family, the answer is largely no.
Will it hurt other people you know?
The answer is yes.
>> Interesting. >> So it's.
We have this conundrum.
>> Right.
>> And people won't take action because most people believe
it's not going to hurt them or they can protect their families.
It's for others to worry about.
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