This course will examine the music industry in the United States, with the unique perspective gained by Vanderbilt University’s location in Nashville, TN. Nashville is a major center of music in the United States, and the music created here has a global reach, particularly in the country, rock, pop, singer-songwriter, and Americana genres. However, students will learn that the basic principles of recording, marketing, copyright, licensing, and live performance are the same, regardless of musical style or genre. The music business is one of the most rapidly changing industries in the US today. It is also an industry filled with contradiction, and media headlines and anecdotal stories often add to the confusion. Here are just a few statements paraphrased from recent news stories: * The music business has collapsed * Demand for music is expanding at the greatest rate in history * Historic recording studios are closing at an alarming rate * More people are making recordings than ever before * Musicians usually lose money touring * Musicians usually make money touring * Major artist pulls songs off streaming services because they don’t pay fairly * Major artist makes a fortune from streaming services * People won’t buy records anymore * Vinyl record sales are soaring This course will attempt to make sense of these seemingly contradictory trends and data, outline the basic structure and mechanisms of today’s music industry, and encourage students to think critically and entrepreneurially about the future of music. Leaders from various areas of the music business will lend their perspectives through in-depth interviews, and footage from a recording session will give learners a behind the scenes look at how a song goes from the spark of an idea hummed into a cell phone to a finished recording. Participants will grapple with questions about art and commerce which are both timeless and crucially important today, and will emerge from this course with tools allowing them to make more informed decisions as creators, promoters, and consumers of music. Course launches February 19, 2016.
Interview: Dave Coleman
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Understanding the Music Business: What is Music Worth?
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Recording & Record Labels, Part 1
Part 1 of this module will cover the basics of audio recording. You’ll learn about the pros and cons of home vs. studio recording, hear perspectives from both home and professional studio owners, and learn about different jobs and roles in recording environments. Finally, you will watch the evolution of the theme song for our course, starting with a rough demo sung into a phone recording app, and following through to the end of the recording session with professional musicians in Nashville.
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Jen GundermanAssistant Professor of Musicology
Blair School of Music
[MUSIC]
I'm here today with Dave Coleman, who is a freelance musician and
producer here in Nashville.
He works very often with his band The Coal Men, but
also does a lot of work with other musicians here in town and
owns a home studio where he records and produces other musicians as well.
Dave, Thank you so
much for allowing us to come into your home and take a look around.
>> I'm glad to have you, this is great.
>> You divide your time between recording, touring, producing.
There's a lot of different projects going on, I think,
in your world I think in any given time.
Can you tell us a little bit about how you balance all of that?
>> Yeah, well, started out with a band.
I wrote songs for many, many years, and started a band because of that.
And got a chance to make a bunch of records with the same group of guys and
ladies through the years.
And I've always enjoyed that, but I've always tried to pursue stuff that I've
been inspired by, whether it's my friends' music or other people's music.
And as a guitar player first,
having a studio has kind of become an extension of that.
It's another instrument to play and
get fascinated with all sorts of different kinds of instruments.
So having those tools has just been a great way to do it.
And now I spend my time between having a band, writing songs,
playing guitar for other folks, and then making records
here in a quick, budgeted way that makes sense for people.
>> I want to come back to the way that you run your home studio in just a minute, but
tell us a little bit more about the life of a freelance musician.
What do you think that people should know about
maybe that world that they might not we aware of?
>> Well, yeah it's a funny thing.
Lots of conversations go on with my friends about this.
It's not easy at all.
It's not a coast job, one where you can just take it easy and
have fun the whole time.
It's a lot of work, it's a lot of dedication.
And it's a lot about the network of friends you have and
musicians that you work with.
You don't have to be a virtuoso.
You don't have to go to Berklee or fine schools to get
a grand education and be a world-class player.
You have to play well and play with passion, and play with,
I guess, a creative side.
I think that to me, is what inspires me, and also those are the people
that I see as being most successful, at least in the industry.
So I always aspire to be that way.
But in another sense, I guess being a side man is about being flexible.
And making sure you can balance your schedule, and
make sure you can return phone calls, and make your life work In that realm.
>> That's really interesting because your one of the very few people I know,
it occurs to me now, that shifts gears very seamlessly between being the front
man of your own thing that you do, whether it's a solo gig or a gig with your band.
But then you do a lot of side work as a guitar player too.
Is that something that you have to sort of consciously shift gears, or is it sort of
an intuitive process for you, moving from the front to the side of the stage?
>> I really love it.
It's a chance for me to take off a hat, and focus on something different.
I mean, sometimes I have weeks where I feel like I'm singing great, and I'm into
that, and there are other weeks where I feel like I'm focusing on guitar playing.
And shifting between those roles, again,
has always been the balance that's made me happy, and kept me driven.
If I had to do one thing, and play guitar for
one artist friend for the rest of my life I think I get a little nuts.
So to have different things going on has kept me inspired and into making music.
And a little time away from my own thing is so great, to play with other folks,
that when I go back to it I have a fresh perspective.
>> Over the years you've had publishing deals,
record deals, arrangements with booking agents and managers.
And actually I'm not sure exactly what your business relationships are right now.
Distributors I know, you've been on tour in Europe.
Can you tell us a little bit about your experiences as an independent musician,
sort of having these relationships sometimes or not?
What do you think musicians need to know about
taking on business help from outside sources like that?
>> Well, it's an industry based on a network.
There's a glass ceiling for those who choose to only work completely DIY.
And I love that in a lot of ways.
I like owning as much of the process as I can.
That's why I have a studio.
That's why I have a band.
That's why I write my own songs.
The whole thing has always fascinated me.
And you can still make records and release them internationally by yourself.
But to break through to a larger audience or work in the mainstream
of how people consume music you have to work with other people.
Fundamentally, and that includes labels sometimes,
now publicists, radio promoters.
Those are the people that I need to work with mainly.
And I'm in a position now where I hire a radio promoter or
a publicist to work with me and I maintain the rest of it.
But a lot of folks still want to work in the mainstream,
I guess, major label world.
But it's changing and we'll see how it all kind of shakes out.
>> Tell us about the evolution of your home studio and
how you decided that you, you mentioned it a little bit already.
But how did you decided that you wanted to set up your own room for
recording in your house?
>> Well, it's just an extension of a 4-track.
As a kid, I love recording I always have, I had a little TASCAM porta-studio and
loved making recordings and learning how to layer things.
I was always fascinated with how you could take simple melodies and
guitar parts and make them work so well and seamlessly together.
So anyway that aside,
I decided to build this place after making a bunch of records with my band.
Seeing great engineers, make really great recordings
with dumb young kids and we're trying to figure it out how to do this whole thing.
And you learn through just sheer observation, and persevering,
and making your own music.
So through that, I kind of slowly started to build
a space to make my own recordings.
But it's just an extension of my musicality now,
that's what I want this to be is it's an instrument for what I love to do so.
>> That's interesting.
It sounds like you saying that you don't consider yourself necessarily to be
an audio engineer per se.
>> Well, I think it's a wholly, It's a way of life.
And you're a professional doctor, in a way, to do that really well.
The guys who do it, the old-school guys and girls are so
good at what they do that they've dedicated their lives to it.
I've spent most of my life doing more musical performance-based stuff.
And writing stuff versus the technical aspect.
But we're in an age right now where the new tools are so flexible,
that you know, you can use them in musical ways without having to be a doctor.
But again, I just don't want to detract from what they do.
But you can make great recordings
with a new skill set that is kind of parallel to what a lot of musicians have.
>> That's interesting.
Could you give us a run down of the gear that you've got in your studio?
>> Well it's pretty simple, I try and stray away from extraneous stuff,
stuff that, again, I'm not a totally doctorated,
schooled engineer, so I don't want to have a mixing consul.
First of all, it's just so expensive.
A lot of this stuff is cost prohibitive.
You can't afford it.
A lot of major studios can never pay off the gear that they buy.
I mean that's a fact that people may not be aware of is that these,
a lot of major studios are basically real estate investments.
[LAUGH] They don't ever pay for themselves in a lot of ways.
So that as a model, as an individual, I don't want to own a car I can't afford.
So, I don't want to own gear I can't afford.
But you can still have great gear that works exceptionally well,
without spending a fortune.
That being said, Pro Tools, a completely
kind of universal language now in the recording world.
There's other great softwares too, and I'm sure a lot of folks could use them too.
Virtual is what I've learned.
A great Apple computer that works great.
You know solid platform.
Great hard drives that you know never fail so far.
What and then an interface made by universal audio which is a great company.
So all those tools, are the mainstay of what I used to record.
And then great microphones, I can't afford super,
super expensive vintage ones but there's great microphones at prices and
great friends that loan me awesome stuff whenever I need it.
>> [LAUGH] >> So those are the basic tools.
And a bunch of great instruments that I've collected through the years that I
love to play.
I know how they sound and I know what sounds I can get out of them.
>> Mm-hm.
Do you have any additional outboard gear besides the interface, and the computer,
and microphones?
>> Yeah, some extra pre-amps that help me have multiple
channels coming in, and then some compressors.
But a lot of what I do is software based mixing,
where it's not a lot of outboard gear.
It's a very mix in the box, which is a term just
to mean that you're using the computer to mix the song, so.
[MUSIC]
>> There are people who argue that a, and I'm not one of them,
to be upfront you know.
But would argue that you can make as good a record in a setup similar to yours as
you can in the most elaborate, you know, famous and
expensive recording studio in Los Angeles or New York or Nashville or anywhere.
Where you.
What do you feel about what is gained or
lost with these very high-end spaces versus working at home?
>> Well, I think as good of a record in a home studio versus
a high-end studio, it just depends on what the term "good" is.
For me, like I'm not a Steeley Dan fan, but
if you want to make a Steeley Dan record, you spend a ton of money and
go to the most expensive studio and you spend six months there.
And it's great.
And it's great.
But those aren't the records I love.
I don't like those records.
I like unique sounding, funkier records that don't have that, perfection.
In the audio engineering world I joke around about Steely Dan because people
have always referred to those as perfect records but
it depends on what you think of as perfect.
To me, you can make great records in a home studio.
Springsteen's Nebraska was made on a four track and mixed in a great studio but
it's a perfect record to me.
Jagged Little Pill was a record made on a small little home studio and
thing sold a kajillion copies.
>> Yeah >> So there's
always exceptions to the rule, you can make junk at your house all you want too.
But I like making unique records and using my musicality to
explore what I can do with my own music and with other friends.
So I think home studios, it's about comfort.
It's about being in a place that's inspiring and comfortable.
Your not worrying about a time clock or your parking at, in an industrial area.
There's a million things that stress people out about going to
an expensive studio, cost is the thing.
>> It can be very intimidating too.
>> Totally.
>> All of a sudden you can't sing because everyone's staring at you.
>> Red Light Syndrome.
Yeah.
And you're spending between $300 to $600 to $1200 a day.
And those studios are incredible.
And what you can do in those places is amazing.
But, a lot of times it's not inspiring.
I think a lot of people get freaked out by it.
The pressure is not conducive to making the music that you wrote
in your bedroom or that's really intimate to you.
But, that being said,
some people have a work ethic of stone where it doesn't matter where they're at.
But here, I just love this place.
This is my wife and I's home, and this is where I feel comfortable.
And I think people dig it.
It's a comfortable place to be, and that being said, I still work
at other studios too and bring stuff here that I worked in other places.
But, making a record top to bottom here is something that is just comfortable and
easy to do.
And also really inexpensive, because I don't have to pay for a ton of stuff.
I have a lot of stuff that sounds great.
And artists and myself can talk out the ideas and achieve something pretty cool.
So.
>> Situations where you do some of the recording,
somewhere else maybe in a bigger room or in a room that has more gear and
then you bring it to finish at your place.
What do you typically record outside of your house and
then what you typically bring back to finish out, here.
>> Well.
I think a lot of times drum sounds are the hardest and modern music
drums are these archaic acoustical instrument that is still across the board,
that's the sound and again I'm sorry to, I'm a rude so like that's
the world that I kind of work and I have specialized and that's what I do well.
I'm not going to make EDM music a big, because I just know how to do.
I don't make jazz records.
Those aren't things that are in my skill set.
Drums are weird acoustical instruments that do a lot of weird, crazy things.
But a lot time it's just about variety.
Like I love my drum sounds here in my small room.
But to have a change of pace or if somebody wants a different sound,
go record something somewhere else and then immediately bring it here afterwards,
and begin working on over dubs and stuff like that.
Doing a record like that partly based is a lot different than doing a live record
that you can still It's, again, it's about what you kind of want the end product,
of what you want to do with, the exploration of it.
A live record is great to make.
But a piece by piece record can be just as cool or, in a different way.
>> Yeah, what I hear you saying is that there are so
many different ways to make great music.
And that's something I love about the recording process, too.
>> Yeah, yeah.
How did you decide that you wanted to begin opening up your studio to
outside clients?
Was that a sort of deliberate thing, or was it just a sort of casual,
hey, come one over, let's do some stuff?
>> I think it came out of playing with other people and
just being so in love with somebody else's music as much
as I am tied to my own is the chance to explore my ideas or
joint ideas with other folks about what
the music that we play live can be recorded.
And I think they're totally different.
I think playing live is an art that involves entertaining,
it involves a lot of musicianship.
But recording in a studio involves musicianship in a different way,
and maybe takes some of the entertainment, visual aspect out of it.
So I think there are two different kind of philosophies of how to make music, so.
>> I would love to hear more about that.
What are some of the differences that you feel exist between performing live and
performing, I guess performing in a studio.
>> Yeah well I mean, live, you have one chance to make one piece happen.
>> Mm-hm.
>> And I love that skill set too.
I mean Ole Big Dan records has it's guys and
girls are so exceptional about what they do.
Make a record or have one performance that was perfect and all that practice and
all that musicianship.
>> Classical musicians.
>> Totally absolutely.
>> Going to the symphony blows my mind, what they can do.
But I guess in the studio, it's about exploration.
The classic examples are the Beatles.
Having a studio now, it's the equivalent of some
chump like me having the ability to spend six months on exploring an idea.
Not that I advise it.
>> [LAUGH] >> I like following through and
making a record, and finishing something.
That's one thing that a lot of people in the home world have issues
with is that they never commit to making a finished product.
All that being said, playing live, I think is a wonderful art.
I love doing it, and I love entertaining too.
I do that a lot with my own band.
We do a lot of gigs, sometimes, where we play for four hours, and
it's about engaging people.
>> Mm-hm.
>> In a way where they feel connected to what you're doing and who you are.
But in a studio, it's the ego, the personality is maybe put aside and
it's more about focusing on the song and what that song can be only by itself.
Let it be its own entity.
So I think that's the difference to me.
[MUSIC]
>> I'd like to hear more too, about what you said about the syndrome where if you
have all the time in the world and it's not costing you any money to make a record
particularly outside of the time that you invest in it and there's nobody in
a record company or anywhere else telling you that you got a deadline.
How does musician know when a record is done?
How does a musician get to the point that you say,
okay this is it, when it sort of all open ended?
>> Well, I think it's hard for a lot of people to commit and finish things.
Dabbing is a safe place.
You can always go back and change things if you want, and
that's one of the curses of modern day recording is that you can
have 52 takes or more of a vocal or a drum part or whatever.
But to me you have to kind of commit to a performance and
it's hard for some people to do.
And those are decisions you just have to commit.
I want to be a productive musician and make records and help people
follow through on what they love to do and so there is a time commitment.
You have to have a deadline of how to follow through and
then actually make a product.
So all those things are tough for some people to kind of digest and
I still have issues.
One of the things that I've learned through this whole process is every time I
think I have enough patience, I don't.
I need more patience with whoever I'm working with,
whether it's myself or somebody else.
But following through and making an end-product is really the goal.
I've got a related question, maybe kind of coming from a different angle.
How do you know, if you're working by yourself or maybe with just friends who
think that you're awesome, how do you know if your work is any good?
How do you know, if you don't have outside people,
if your A&R guy isn't saying, I don't hear a single and you can do whatever you want.
How do you know if your work is good enough?
>> I think you have to come out of your bedroom sometimes, you know, and
really engage people you trust to be honest with.
I think the curse of the artist in general, is for me,
the tying factor of all my friends is low self esteem, so That being said.
That just tell you a little bit about myself.
>> No, I tell you, I apologise for interrupting but it occurred to me not so
long ago that all of my favorite musicians had serious self living streaks and
I wondered whether, yeah that is some sort of prerequisite for
you know great music making.
>> I think doubt is a part of it, but I think If you do this for years and year,
you know when you do it right and you know when you do it well and when it's genuine.
Sometimes to me it's more about being genuine and honest than being perfect.
And if it's not great, I don't care.
It means something to me.
And that's the artist's spirit, and I know it's all gushy and all,
but that's what is important to me.
>> Right.
>> I've made records that I think are great.
And maybe in five years, I'll look back and
I think that they're not great, but I'm proud of everything I've done.
>> So if it rings some sort of bell inside of you.
>> Yeah, yeah, and also with other people it's great for
me to work with other people because it gives me a little clearer here,
a little perspective to walk away from the artist world, and see it one step removed.
I think I could be more honest with myself about what they're doing and
then in turn take that benchmark and that level and
apply it to what I'm doing so, >> In other words when you're playing
guitar for another singer you can see the challenges that that singer is facing in
a different kind of way than you might be able to when you're in that role?
>> Yeah, yeah, observing somebody else doing it too,
yeah that >> That way,
you get the best seat in the house just to see what's working and what's not.
>> Right.
>> So, studio work is a little bit privatized until
you have a finish products.
So, a lot of times I play staff for other musicians and just see if they dig it.
Upon first listening if it sounds like Something that they're interested
in versus just hey, this is the newest, greatest thing I've done, I don't
necessarily want to approach it that way, I just want to see if it grabs them.
>> Let's talk a little bit about business and money and What you do,
the subtitle for this class is What is Music Worth and
one of the things that I'm trying to get the audience and
learners engaged with is questions about how music is valued.
What is your take on the way that, musicians are getting paid or maybe
in more generally even though the way the music is valued in our culture today.
>> Well. >> I realize that's a huge,
broad question, but.
>> I'll ramble for a while and see if I have something to say about that.
I think live.
It's funny, a lot of club bands are getting played, or getting paid
the same amount that they were 10 years ago or 15 years ago, sometimes.
>> True.
>> Major labels sometimes don't pay As much as they did a few years ago,
or they don't pay you for six months.
[LAUGH] >> Right.
>> Sometimes, the invoices never get on the right desk.
But I think people do care about music, I think that they will pay for it.
I think it's a fluid thing right now
of how things are going to shake out in the recorded world.
That's something that is hard to figure out.
I think in the home studio world, too, kind of what we're doing here
Is my rates aren't high end studio rates.
So there's a spectrum now of what it costs or
what you can spend to make a recording.
But you have to kind of quantify that with what or qualify that with
what you're going to do with it, are you going to earn money with it.
So young folks have to figure out what's the potential of their record.
Realistically and what can you afford to spend on something with a return.
It sounds kind of accountany.
But, that way it, you can make a decision whether you want to make.
Spend $1200 a day at a studio, or spend two or 300 bucks a day on a studio.
And weight out where things are going to be at.
And you can kind of figure that out with cycle to cycle on a record what
people can start to earn and maintain.
>> Is it difficult to learn how to stay on top of your budget and
finances as a musician?
>> It always has been for me.
I play it safe a lot, in terms of money, but in that
same realm, when I'm working with people now, I don't want to over charge them.
People tell me all the time.
Never under-charge for what you do, your skill set or what you do.
But I know what it's like to make a record on a budget, and
I did a record just not too long ago with a kid who lived in a car for two months so
he could afford to make a record here.
>> Yeah. >> And it's not a ton of money, but
that dedication Is inspiring to me.
And I want people who are on fire about what they're doing and
making really good music to have a chance to do that.
And so there's a little bit of a nice guy side to me sometimes with the money thing.
But I don't want to be walked on either.
So I'm learning through the years to balance that out.
It's hard.
>> Can you tell us a little bit more about your role as a producer and
what specifically that entails?
I know that you also engineer when you're producing records here in your house
you're the audio engineer.
But you're also the producer on the session.
So what does that mean for you in this context?
>> Well, I love people who follow through and really make something happen.
So for me to take on the role of producer,
it usually entails a lot more than some people take on.
It's a fluid term that a lot of people use that could mean anything, but for
me it's about Sitting down and talking to a friend or
artist and coming up with a body of songs.
And choosing, helping to choose that batch of songs.
>> Do you talk about budget right away too?
>> Yeah, yeah.
That's usually one of the first things.
Actually, probably not.
It's usually about the inspiration to do this thing first and
then we'll figure out the money later.
That's terrible to say, but the business side makes sure to save money first.
Follow somebody's catalog, find the great songs, you know,
get the budget together, get the people together to make the record.
Schedule the dates.
Record, mix.
You know. And then it's also about
how what I've done as an artist or worked with an artist,
how can I help somebody else with that information that I've learned.
I kind of feel like a fam familiar role of
helping somebody with, now we've made this recording, how can you put that out there?
What's the right plan for you?
Not really as a manager,
that's a whole other spectrum I don't want to get involved with.
But just about helping give a little bit of advice because it's a hard climate to
release a record and figure out what to do.
With it nowadays, but maybe I want to encourage people to follow through and
find a way to do that.
So, that's a huge, broad range of stuff and it's a process that takes,
it can take a little while, but it's a lot about trust and friendship and
there's an intimate thing that happens, so It involves a lot of patience, and
a lot of heart put into something.
But that process is to me what's important about art.
Throwing yourself into it, not treating it like it's a you know an industrial job.
>> Yeah, because if you don't care it why should anyone else care about it.
>> Yeah, yeah, and you can lose your prospective sometimes, but again I try and
talk to folks who'll give me an honest reaction about what we're doing and
the path that we're on.
But it's a fun role and It's kind of like being the band leader.
It's kind of like being a good family member or a good brother.
All of those things are kind of tied together for me.
>> So if I were a young musician and
I was thinking about getting some software together and a computer together and
start doing my own recording, how does a person make that choice?
How do you know when you're ready to start doing your own recording?
And what steps do you need to take versus just sort of
going into a place like yours and letting somebody else handle that work.
>> Yeah, that's a valid question because a lot of friends I know write songs and
they could do their own studio thing.
I think it's a matter of,
do you want to take that instrument on because it's its own entity.
It's it's own way of performing and working.
A lot of the tools are pretty simple and straightforward now.
You don't have to have super expensive gear.
You don't have to have a mixing console on a desk a mile long.
Or tape machines either.
All those things are awesome tools used in the right hands.
Engineers who are doctors and can do that thing so well.
I admire them a lot.
I'm more of a guitar player so the tools that I use now Are accessible to me and
I can learn how to use them in the way a guitar player would
use a pedal board or something like that.
That's kind of how I think of it in my mind now that I kind of digested.
But the tools are pretty straightforward.
Right, computer, that's solid, that doesn't crash, spend money on that.
Great hard drives that never crash,
an interface that's quality with great mic preamps.
Some extra preamps so you can have a total range of what you're doing.
Maybe I have a compressor that's killer, that sounds great,
it's a cool tool that I use a lot, and then great microphones.
These are all tools that if you're playing live already,
you use these in a relatable way.
>> Mm-hm.
>> You have to work a mic on stage so that you can deliver the song well.
Same way in the studio, you learn how to use that microphone in a musical way.
And then also just listening, I think a lot of it, I love
how music interacts between people and so I just love listening.
I love trying to find a way to be musical with those tools.
>> How did you learn to use the recording software that you use?
You said you use Pro Tools.
Is that something that person can teach themselves, or did you take a class, or
read the manual, or ask friends, or?
>> Well, making records with my band.
Being a musician in a room where all this is happening, you observe and
kind of learn from that.
But so that was my three or four records of my own band and
then dozens of other records with other folks seeing that happen.
And asking questions and being curious about what's
going on in that world because you kind of realize that that's an instrument too,
that engineering is really kind of utilizing.
So, but then, that being said,
I got a great computer, got Pro Tools and just went to town.
I made an instrumental pedal steel record and nobody will ever listen to it.
But it's out there, I love it.
But it was me going garage band gorilla on something that I love musically and
trying to capture it.
And one of the things that I think, it's a weird elusive thing about music
is that the naivety that the young artists bring to music
is sometimes the absolute most pure amazing thing that somebody can ever do.
And no matter how skilled,
how many years you go on to study it, you can never attain that naivety.
So that being said, those things,
those skills that you learn in that world, you can always move forward in the plot.
So that songwriting, engineering,
performing on an instrument, all that stuff, it works.
>> I love the way that you describe all of your skill sets as sort of being
just different tools that all revert back to the idea of you being a musician,
whether you're talking about your approach to the studio, or
your approach to the guitar, or your approach to songwriting or producing.
I think that's really helpful to kind of have a united view of all of those
skill sets, it's really great.
>> Yeah. >> A lot of people know that there is
a current raging debate going on between the sound
quality of digital recordings, MP3s, or CDs,
or any kind of digital playback or media and analog vinyl.
There are people who will say that vinyl sounds better than any MP3.
I'm actually one of those people that will say that, but not everybody will know
that there is a parallel discussion that goes on in the world of recording.
That digital recording and analog recording are also things
that people talk a lot about, think a lot about.
And of course, the early days of recording all we had was analog tape to record to,
and full disclosure, I made a fully analog record with Dave and
I've also made digital records with you too.
And so I know that you've worked in both analog format and digital format and
wonder not so much on the listening side of things, but
on the recording side of things, what your perspective is about recording a tape
versus recording to Pro Tools or hard drives.
>> Well, my opinion is that I think tape sounds great
when it's utilized by somebody who can really make it work.
But it's a lot of wrangling.
It's a very intimidating, hard to learn art.
But it's slow.
That's the other thing about tape.
It's a slow process.
And one of the things I love about being in the studio is
being able to work quickly.
And if somebody has an idea, they can explore it quickly or
change it or move it if you want.
I mean, a lot of times, I record it in digitally like a tape machine.
I just press record, and it never stops until we have a tape that I like.
But the idea that you can go quickly and manipulate stuff
in the digital realm is, I don't know, it's so great.
It's the flexibility that I think is like magical now.
Rather than being able to cut tape and edit stuff like that, you can do it so
quickly and still feel the momentum of recording together versus having to take
a two hour break while somebody has to- >> Calibrate
the [CROSSTALK] [LAUGH] machine, yeah.
>> That's to me is the benefit.
I've never been a huge audiophile.
It's about the performance and
the song and the spirit that I feel from a recording versus
the absolute detail of the drum tone.
It's about the performance, so a lot of times, maybe it's terrible for me to say,
but that high, high and super high fi stuff, I still think it really matters.
I think it's about really trying to deliver something that's unique to me.
>> What do you think some of the best things are that people in their
home communities can do to support music, musical culture,
and music community in their own backyards?
>> Man, well, to me, I think it's still about buying records.
I mean buy, support somebody by buying the recorded version of what they do.
Because that's really, that's the timeless thing that we want to generate.
Live shows are awesome, go to live shows because those are the exact opposite.
Those are the one moments in time,
very unique places to see something that'll never happen again.
So you just have to really go out and support people for
what they do and what they're delivering.
Sometimes that means pledging to a campaign if somebody's doing
a Kickstarter, just support the arts.
I mean, that's such a blanket term, and
also be aware that at least in the current world right now,
there's a lot of controversy on what it is worth to make music.
So much of what we see seems free and
like it's a given but I think it does have value and
people depend on this stuff for their livelihood.
So, definitely buy records, go to live shows,
and Be a patron because life would be pretty
bland if we didn't really dig this stuff.
>> Mm-hm.
I like what you just said about music seeming to be free.
What do you mean by that?
>> The modern age, and I'm a young guy,
36, it's been so revolutionary to see this change.
CDs for me, when I was a teenager, were 15, 20 bucks.
And now Wilco and U2 give their records away for free.
And it doesn't make sense to me in a lot of ways.
I understand it in a business world.
Study up on your business, figure out how this stuff works.
Promote a record.
They're promoting their record.
They're promoting their live show, but but making a record is
still something that I think it's an art form itself, you have to be a patron.
I guess maybe think of it as being a patron of recorded music and
being a patron of live music, too.
So.
[MUSIC]
I know that you've been collaborating with some of the same musicians for
many years now.
You've got long time musical relationships with
a kind of family of people that you worked with.
Can you tell me a little bit about why maintaining those relationships or
fostering those kinds of communities is important to you?
>> Yeah.
Well, I'm a loyalist.
I believe in working with the same people.
Maybe it's just the small nuclear family I grew up in or whatever.
But I love working with people and developing relationships and friendships.
I don't like to go to big parties.
I like an intimate connection with people.
Those are how I relate to the world.
So to me, working with the same people, you have these friendships.
And the friendships are so tied in with the music to me.
It's this, I don't know.
That's my kind of spiritual way of living I guess, if I think about it.
But working with the same guys in the band, you lean how to play together so
well and develop something so unique.
That that's the power.
Again, I'll never be a virtuoso, but what I have with the band members that I play
with I think is wholly unreplicatable from anybody else.
I think if anybody else tried to do what we did, It wouldn't be the same.
We have something very special.
That being said, same thing with a lot of my friends that I've worked with for
years.
The folks that I really believe in what they do.
We live in a town full of great musicians.
So, we have this leg up in the sense that there's so many great folks
to work with but my family of people that have entrusted their music to me,
I feel an obligation to stay connected with that, so yeah.
Great people, they're the people that make me want to continue to do this.
[MUSIC]
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